Peakah's Provocations...

One of the former intel officers at the CIA was on Glenn Beck yesterday and said that the only President in recent history that "got it" was George H. W. Bush.

This is my first post here on this site. I figured this might be as good as any place to start.

I'm curious, of course, about what the above comment means. In what way did GHW "get it" or perhaps a better question might be exactly what was it that he got?

In reference to the film, (Path to 9/11) I am equally curious about what references or data points make the film's content accurate. I mean, specifically, other than what has been reported by the media, what other credible (?) sources do we have for knowing any of the content was true...? (Other than what we might want to believe.)

I didn't see the film, but I would guess it had a reference to Osama Bin Laden being responsible for bringing down the WTC buildings, right?

Would it shock anyone to know that OBL has not only never been charged with that crime, but that the FBI has no evidence linking him to the crime?

After all, we have now invaded two countries under the pretense of finding this villain, or those who support him, yet our very own national law enforcement agency does not even list him as wanted for the crime. In fact, they have deemd the infamous tape to likely be a fake, as well.

How do we rectify this fact with the so-called accuracy of this film?

How do we square the fact that NORAD was running drills that same day, at the same time as the attacks, that simulated highjacked airplanes being flown into buildings in lower Manhattan? We had fighters in the air. Yet Condi and Cheney claim they had no idea such attacks could ever occur...

Don't you find that in the least bit strange?

There are actually many more examples of errors, falsehoods, and downright lies that have been uncovered yet go widely ignored by those who choose to accept data that is supported by nothing more than one's eagerness to believe it.

I am not defending Clinton at all. I am suggesting that the story we are being told is full of holes and bears further investigation.

Thanks

Fair enough...

I guess I identify better with those who've written their own accounts from their own contexts and in their own words.

Books written by ex-CIA officers like Richard Baer, for example, who detail how broken down and neglected our intelligence systems became when we shifted our focus away from spying on the Russians have quite a bit of credibility with me.

Believing that this was all a grand conspiracy is too much for me to swallow. It assumes that all involved are crooked and have not one ounce of integrity to come out and say what actually happened.

Instead the only ones with these conspiracy theorys are those who do nothing but look for those theories and have so immersed themselves in the world of deceit and lies that they no longer see nothing but deceit and lies all around them...

I'm not sure but it almost sounds like some kind of mental derangement to me... but then again there's a high likelihood that I'm quite deranged myself. Then when I consider the scriptures for guidance, it's loaded with warnings of secret combinations at work behind the scenes, proof of Satan's hand- in this- His World (for now that is)

But I digress...

Believe me, I've watched all the Alex Jones movies, read the conspiracy papers... I do believe that there are "puppetmasters" pulling certain economical strings to get what they want.

There's no doubt that our media's just as much a puppet... if not more so.

But to sit here and say that all those involved are in on some grand plot just doesn't hold water. My naivete assumes that individual people at their hearts are good- corruptable- but good.

There's no doubt that there is a war on our hands... the enemy has declared it. Instead of sitting here and putting together these far-fetched theories, we need to be protecting the United States of America from further attacks...

...but of course, you will say, that this is exactly how they would have us to be conditioned to further their agenda...

*shrug*

There ain't no loss of love brah, because I do love hearing all sides. I also love picking one and defending it, as obviously you do.

Must be in tha blood eh? *wink*
Thanks for stopping by!
Do NOT be a stranger!

Indeed, it must be in the blood.

I'm not sure how we went from questioning the official story to full blown conspiracy theories. My response to that post was more about using discretion while accepting as fact the material in a movie or even a news cast.

Yes, I do have my serious doubts about the official story and no, I do not trust our current, or former governments much at all. My comments were not about proclaiming that everyone in our government is rotten as much as they were a caution for all of us to use greater discernment when sifting through media.

We ARE being lied to. There is no doubt about that. Our task is to determine, as much as possible, without prejudice exactly what is truth and what is false.

To the extent that the lies did in fact influence our involvement in, and acceleration of, the war in the Middle East, it is incumbent upon us to examine the premise that brought us into the situation.

That has not been done. The 9/11 Commission has already devulged that it was lied to. The people responsible for protecting us from such attacks - although they failed miserably - are still there and have not in any way been held accountable.

The nagging problem the anti-conspiracy theory crowd has is the long line of very credible, ex-senior CIA, FBI, and military brass who have equally compelling stories to tell about how the official version of events is a fairy tale. (If not an inside job)

I don't know what happened on 9/11. My point here is... niether do you, or most likely anyone else visiting your site. Rather than forming ranks behind some arbitrary left-right line, we should all take a huge step backward and revisit the events, sans the emotions and patriotism it fomented. There are still far too many unanswered questions about an event(s) that launched us into what may soon become a world war.

As far as people being basically good... That is an age-old debate. Some might suggest that man would not need a saviour if 'he' were good.

The reference I think you made to Goebels quote (I think it was Goebels. I am getting along in years and I DO have teenagers) was taken a bit out of context. The reference to people believing a big lie if it is told over and over again, was actually made in reference to a falsehood propogated by a government to its people.

Lastly... I'm 34 for 34 with the FBI / OBL reference. I have mentioned it to 34 people and not a single one has addressed it. It IS quite a problem isn't it? It only takes a minute to verify. The FBI has stated publicly that they do not have any evidence linking OBL to 9/11.

My question stands... If the FBI is not seeking OBL for the crimes of 9/11, why are we currently at war with two nations for his sake?

I think this is a legitimate question. It is not conspiracy theory. It is a fact. It is verifiable.

Right now your are probably thinking, "Who let that guy in here?"

You'd still be on my Christmas card list if I had one.

Naa, I'm glad you're here! Unfortunately I have no intellectual ground to stand on, just the internal desire to love my country and see it do what I think best for it/us.

Those are disturbing facts that need answers. Sorry if I did go a lil off the deep end implying you're a conspiracy nut. I guess that conditioning has taken over as well.

As long as we have the Second Amendment to allow us to protect ourselves from the Gov't, I'm willing to trust it to a point.

I really wish I had more time to respond but I need to head to work... I'll dive into this a bit deeper this weekend with ya Droop because believe it or not, I am willing to be open minded about this even if it means what I've been thinking has been all wrong...

...we'll see...

Hmmm...

I tried posting a reply, but it didn't take. (I'm not fully functional yet on this format.)

It is interesting to note that over the weekend a CBS / NY Times poll showed fully 84% of Americans do not trust the gub'ment's version of the 9/11 events.

That is actually consistent with other polls (CNN and Zogby) taken over the last couple of years. It seems that my position on this topic is shared by a few hundred other people out there...

Here is my post that didn't take:

Actually, by the definition proffered by the likes of FOX news, I guess I might be considered a ‘conspiracy nut’. People like Bill “I don’t need sound reasoning to refute you, all I have to do is call you names and I win” O’Riley want to convince people that anyone who does not buy the official government version of the 9/11 and related events is a deranged idiot who hates America.

Because I am part of a very large group of people who do not buy what we are being told, I am in a position to know many crazed lunatics like me. Guess what? The vast majority of us are not crazy. We are, in fact, blessed with discernment and many of us are highly intelligent. We love God above all else and we love America. Contrary to what the Neo-Con, bought-and-paid-for media pundits are paid to spew out about us ‘conspiracy theorists’, we do have facts to support our positions, we do have many, many credible people from within government who confirm our beliefs, and we are not out to bring down America. In fact…we are trying desperately to save it.

The most important thing we have in common is that virtually none of us wants to be right. In fact, many, as I do, start each day in prayer to the Father asking Him not to let us be deceived or lead others into deception. We pray for truth, not only to be revealed to us but to others. We don’t care if we are proven wrong. We want to be.

Frankly, no matter what a person believes about 9/11, I have little interest in what they have to say unless I know they have been on their face before Yahweh, asking Him to reveal truth to them. Does the fact that I have done that (In fact, I do it every single day) mean that I have all the answers? Of course not. It does mean, however, that I am more interested in the truth than being right.

How many people today can say that? How many people have come to this issue with a preconceived set of conclusions and are sifting through the media flotsam hoping to find another chunk of debris to support their position?

We have to stop doing this. How much evidence do we need (all of us) before we realize how far off course we have strayed? When did Americans get so wimpy that we are willing to surrender our rights and freedoms just because we think someone may have punched us in the face? I am an American. I don’t cower before terrorists. I don’t surrender my constitutional rights just because some of us are “scared”.

The reality is that we really don’t know who hit us. Let’s be totally honest about it. Think this through. Where did this information come from? The same media sources we already don’t trust. So, where does that leave us?

Let me give you an example of how badly we have been manipulated relative to any discussion about the truth behind 9/11…

If I suggest the government had a hand in the attacks, (Just as an example) I am immediately called a ‘conspiracy nut’ and relegated to the slag heap of America-hating liberal nut jobs. I am immediately told that such an operation would have taken months, if not years to orchestrate and included a cast of the hundreds, if not thousands of people, some of whom would have certainly talked by now. Furthermore, the notion of bombs in the buildings is ludicrous since placing them would have been close to impossible and besides, the government already explained how the building fell straight down because it pancaked on itself.

If you accept the official version, (A theory, I might add; carried out as a product of a conspiracy by a group) you are allowed to propose that nineteen poorly trained flight school students pulled off the whole thing; directed from a cave in a third world country. If you do not accept that version, the rules somehow change and the success of the attacks now require hundreds, if not thousands of highly-trained operatives.

If you accept the official version, the towers were somehow (even if they could change the laws of physics and fire can actually cause structural steel to fail) able to fall neatly downward onto their own footprints at nearly free fall speed simply by some random chance. Somehow, two buildings with aspect ratios of at least 10 to 1 fell in exactly the same way after being struck in different places and burning for different durations. But, somehow… by chance… they fell with the precision that would truly take demolition experts months to orchestrate. All by pure chance. On the other hand, if someone suggests that explosives were placed in the buildings, the burden of proof falls to that person to prove how hundreds of operatives could have gained access to the thousands of points on the building that would be required to carry off such a thing.

You and I will never resolve this in a blog. In fact, the sad reality is that the truth about 9/11 may never be revealed at all. As long as we fight amongst ourselves, calling each other names, parroting the vitriol spewed forth by the likes of Sean Hannity and Bill O’Riley, accusing each other of being un-American, there is no need to search for the truth.

What amazes me is how many times the government has been caught lying yet some can’t even accept the possibility that they lied about 9/11. The FBI has never opened an investigation into the worst case of mass murder in US history. Does this not disturb you? Within 42 minutes of the first plane striking the towers, we already ‘knew’ it was Bin Laden and the boys. We went from “not having any idea an attack like that could happen” (even though NORAD was running drills at the very same time in the same place for such a thing) to knowing exactly who did it in less than an hour.

I’m sorry. I don’t buy it. We need a REAL criminal investigation… Now…

Please keep in mind that a very large segment of the Patriot Movement are older Christians who have discovered that W is not what he claims to be. I would highly recommend tuning into the Republic Broadcasting for the Rick Adams and Dr Stan shows in the evenings. You may be quite surprised at what you hear from this group of ‘conspiracy nuts’.

Sorry,

That was me, above...